Gdynia and the Dream of a Maritime Poland

(engelsbergideas.com)

72 points | by lermontov 2 days ago

6 comments

  • yu3zhou4 3 hours ago
    Gdynia is an often overlooked neighbor of the famous Gdańsk. Together with Sopot and Gdańsk they make Trójmiasto (Tricity). I live here for 7 years now and this agglomeration together with Kashubian surrounding is my fav place in the earth. Worth visiting if you want to see Poland
    • unj 2 hours ago
      I could never see the touristic appeal of Gdynia, but it is (or at least used to be) the very best city in PL to live in. I wouldn’t trade growing up there for anything. Unfortunately life displaced me to my least favorite city :)
      • wowoc 34 minutes ago
        > Unfortunately life displaced me to my least favorite city :)

        Warsaw?

        • yu3zhou4 33 minutes ago
          Probably Gdańsk, the typical neighbors conflicts between Gdynia and Gdańsk are common here, since the cities are very close to each other and thus compete for the same resources

          I personally enjoy each of the cities and the Kashubia and Kociewie surroundings, it’s just each of these places has its own soul and unique culture

    • keiferski 3 hours ago
      Yeah it’s a cool city. I especially like it for the modernist buildings:

      https://modernizmgdyni.pl//en

    • fuckyah 2 hours ago
      [dead]
  • kadw 3 hours ago
    Worth mentioning that recently Gdynia celebrated its 100th birthday. On top of that, the city center has UNESCO heritage status https://www.reuters.com/world/gdynia-polands-interwar-modern...
  • yakshaving_jgt 2 hours ago
    Fun fact: Bond villain Ernst Blofeld is from Gdynia!

    As is half of my family, incidentally. In fact, the names of some of my relatives are written on the wall inside the museum pictured in the article. I lived there for 10 years. Lovely place to live.

  • kayo_20211030 3 hours ago
    > wide to the hopeful Baltic Sea beyond

    What a great phrase.

  • epolanski 2 hours ago
    > This would be a new Poland. Wilson called for it to include ‘territories inhabited by indisputably Polish populations’ (this would become difficult to ascertain and haunt the future of the region)

    I'm Polish, out of my 8 grandfathers: 2 come from modern day central Ukraine (Vinnytsia), 2 come from modern day Belarus (Ashmyany).

    It's very hard to explain to people how weak the whole concept of nation state used to be in Eastern Europe till ww2.

    From Eastern Germany to the Urals, every place you would go it was a deeply cosmopolitan mix of Germans, Jews, different Slav ethnicities and depending on the regions significant Romanians, Hungarians, Turks and some other minorities.

    You would cross from one village to the other and the language would change, and in minor centers neighborhood and districts changed architecture and language. Different ethnicities also generally mapped to different professions and status. And those changes didn't really look like gradients, more like dispersed bubbles.

    Ethnic tensions were always present, everybody literally hated and tolerated each other with Jews generally being the common scape goat.

    My grandparents coming from modern day Ukraine vividly remember the violence and terror caused by UPA, the nazi-sympathizing Ukrainian militias. My mother's grandma could not forget till the day she lived (died in 2004) what she saw in her childhood village when Ukrainians came and started a massacre that saw her losing a brother, countless cousins, uncles and friends.

    Of course, Poles have been the aggressors too, just a few decades before, when Poland attacked the Soviet Union in the 1920s and had its own share of ethnic violence against Ukrainians and Belarusians.

    In any case, Eastern Europe is deeply plagued and poisoned by all of this past violence. No one is able to have a mea culpa moment, no one is able to admit their own guys were bloody murders often killing thousands of people like cattle. No one can admit their ancestors crap.

    The same happens in the Russo-Ukrainian conflict. The Russians see in Ukrainians the accomplice of their biggest trauma (the Great Patriotic War against Nazi Germany).

    The Ukrainians see in Russia the perpetrator of their biggest trauma (the 1920s Holodomor).

    No side ever says sorry, no side ever takes responsibility, no side can move on. And Eastern Europe keeps being unhealed from its traumas and carrying this in modern age.

    And a man that would rather see the world burn than step out (Putin) plays on those traumas he very well understands for his own personal lust of power.

    • ecshafer 2 hours ago
      The history of Eastern Europe is very interesting, in how that came to be. A combination of pure immigration and settlement of peoples from the more populous low countries and Rhine valley to Eastern Europe. There was expulsion of Jews from central and western Europe, leading them to migrate to Eastern europe for the comparative religious tolerance. Then there was the hanseatic league, which created German cities, settlements and districts throughout the East to bring goods west as part of a vast trade network. Then German miners and engineers being brought east to exploit mineral wealth. This isn't taught much in the western schools, but its fascinating confluence of factors that lasted hundreds of years in early modern europe that created this total lack of homogenous populations in eastern europe.
      • lukaslalinsky 1 hour ago
        I'm Slovak, and when I was a kid, I was really wondering what is the thing that makes people Slovak, what is the unifying thing. And only later in life I realized, that there is not much to it. It's just people that happened to be living in this area and stayed throughout the different times. Many cultures came and left. All the slavic languages we kind of fluid for a very long time, the standardization is recent, if you look at it from global point of view. The sad part is, this is not really even taught in local schools. And I also find it fascinating, that it's such a wild blend of cultures and yet the country/nature where the people lived formed them to something unique.
    • tuzemec 1 hour ago
      This is very well put, IMO.

      And I feel that the Balkans are even more representative, although my perspective may be skewed because I live there.

    • rafski123 2 hours ago
      Going out for hikes through the Kashubian hills you can still find the old border markers from WWII era where the German border was.
    • pzo 2 hours ago
      > I'm Polish, out of my 8 grandfathers

      You probably mean great grand parents. You can only have 2 grandfathers.

    • ajuc 38 minutes ago
      > when Poland attacked the Soviet Union in the 1920s

      Eh, it was more complicated than that. Basically a gradual build up from 1918 advancement of Polish forces from west and Soviet from east into the territories abandoned by German armies, then "border incidents" then regular army clashes, and eventually a full blown offensive by Poland and counteroffensive by Soviets.

      I guess you can interpret it as Poland invading soviet russia (no soviet union yet btw, and Poland was supporting one of the 3 Ukrainian states that existed at the time).

      But yeah Poland wasn't innocent anyway. For example it did the Putin's Crimean trick on Lithuania back in interwar. That was much more clear-cut.

      > In any case, Eastern Europe is deeply plagued and poisoned by all of this past violence. No one is able to have a mea culpa moment, no one is able to admit their own guys were bloody murders often killing thousands of people like cattle. No one can admit their ancestors crap.

      That's just false.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giedroyc_Doctrine

      Poland did mea culpa after WW2. The whole thing is based on recognizing that Poland has been imperialist and did bad things and that it's in the end bad for Poland to continue trying to control these territories because it pushes us into conflict against Russia without the support of the other countries.

      On the other hand admiting guilt and renouncing imperialism makes us clearly the lesser evil for the countries in between and gives us buffer zone in case Russia turns evil again (which we predicted, and which did happened).

      It was the basis for Polish eastern foreign policy for last 37 years and still is (it's another question for how long it stays that way if far-right wins the next elections tho).

      I highly recommend anybody interested in Eastern Europe after WW2 to read Giedroyc and Mieroszewski. They were visionaires. They predicted back in 1950s that USSR will fall and that the independent nationstates that will appear will have 2 choices - go back to chaotic ethnic wars or drop the territorial and historical disputes. And they developed the doctrine in 70s and slowly persuaded opposition in communist Poland so when Poland regained independence in 1989 - almost all the elites bought into it. It was a big bet and it worked very well for Poland.

      Sadly nowadays half of Polish political scene starts to move away from that, but that's another subject. Mostly just unchecked far-right propaganda.

      • tmp10423288442 3 minutes ago
        In the case of Poland, though, the post-war situation had more to do with Stalin wanting to punish Poland for interfering in Ukraine, as well as put more distance between the core of the Soviet Union and Germany, by seizing Polish territory in the east to give to the Ukrainian SSR, but in exchange and to weaken Germany, most of Prussia in Germany was seized and given to Poland, with the attending population transfers. In any case, with the Warsaw Pact, any revanchist sentiments that may have remained in Poland weren't going to get off the ground.
        • ajuc 0 minutes ago
          [delayed]
      • epolanski 31 minutes ago
        That doctrine is far more of a partially implemented wishful thinking than anything the polish society or foreign policy really pursued.

        As a society we're nowhere near the Germans when it comes to amending our mistakes.

        Most poles will blame Ukrainians for their WW2 acts, but barely recognize our own fails between ww1 and ww2.

        • ajuc 10 minutes ago
          Giedroyć doctrine was pursued by all the governments since 1989, even if the society as a whole wasn't always entirely persuaded.

          For one example Poland accepted all the borders around it after WW2 the instant any country appeared (it was usually the first or 2nd country in the world recognizing each of these countries as they appeared). That's despite the fact before the war Vilnius and Lviv were top 5 Polish cities with huge cultural impact, and despite the fact that Poland lost 1/7th of it's territory after WW2 (even including the territory we got on the west as "compensation"). I will admit we got better land in exchange for marches and forests. But millions of people who got forcibly relocated after WW2 could be much more unreasonable about it than they were.

          I agree German society is more reasonable about it than Polish society, but when it comes to elites - it was the opposite for a long time. German eastern policy was much more imperial than Polish one at least till 2021. They tended to ignore EE countries issues over appeasing Russia, treating all the problematic stuff as "russophobia" and dealing with Russia over the heads of the smaller countries (Nord Stream 1 and 2 is just one example, there were also the issues of Russia hacking Estonian elections, blocking the gas deliveries against the contract on purpose to blackmail EE countries, etc.) Germany was ignoring these for the longest time.

          Also - Germans waited with recognizing Polish post-WW2 borders and only did it when they were forced to - to get unification accepted. It was surprisingly realpolitik. Similarly - to this day Germany does not provide most Slavic minorities with minority rights despite Germans enjoying German city names, street names, education in these languages, etc in German-speaking Polish regions. It's very weird when you compare the treatment of minorities in practice with the sentiments of the population and the stereotypes about the countries.

          So I wouldn't single out Germany as the most reasonable politically regarding EE. Their political instincts were till the last few years to deal with Russia and ignore the small countries.

  • lifestyleguru 2 hours ago
    Nobody cares about or wants to wonder at modernist architecture. These are at best nice buildings to live and work in. The prices have already caught up with German and Dutch cities and are ridiculous relative to still lowish Polish salaries, assuming you're even employed nowadays. Nothing to see there.